Productive land and mountain tops cannot be wasted so that some can sell renewable energy to Germany and Austria... As for Mt. Oiti, it will be a huge crime if plans to install wind turbines on this mountain of flowers go ahead!
Speaking in the Municipality of Lamia
Greek Version Also Available - Η συνέντευξη στα Ελληνικά
Stefanos Stamellos was born in the village of Petralona, in the famed Agrafa mountain region of central Greece, a remote autonomous region during the Ottoman era, and lives in Lamia. He graduated from the Athens University of Economics and Business and worked at the Greek Telecoms organisation (OTE). A great lover of mountains, he has scaled many peaks in Greece and abroad, while he is a long-distance and mountain runner. Over the past four decades Stefanos has been and still is very active in local and national initiatives and social movements related to political ecology and the defense of the environment, and was elected as a municipal councillor in Lamia. A prolific writer, his writings have been published in various online and offline media, as well as five books (in Greek), all available from Zacharopoulos Publications: “From Pagasitikos to Amvrakikos, a travelogue to the first borders of Greece” (2018), the local government policy-related “Lamia 1991-2018, proposals & interventions - What the winds of time did not take away” (2019), “On the road to Pythia: Agrafa - Karpenisi - Delphi, the European Path E4” (2019), “Album Notes 2019 - 2020, the placards of Diogenes” (2021), and “In the shadow of the poppy” (2022), a poetry collection. Stefanos is the founder and administrator of one of the oldest ecology portals in Greece, www.e-ecology.gr, where he publishes news and opinion pieces on ecology, the environment, quality of life and mountaineering. He also manages various other websites related to ecological and environmental problems in the region of Fthiotida and beyond.
Antonis Petropoulos: You have the gift of writing both well and voluminously, from political interventions and documented proposals to historical and folkloric articles, while in recent years you have also written books, already five. What drives you the most to write? To get the uninterested interested, to help the interested understand, or some personal, deeper research? Specifically, what prompted you to write your first book “From Pagasitikos (Pagasetic Gulf) to Amvrakikos (Ambracian Gulf), a journey along the first borders of Greece”?
Stefanos Stamellos: I sincerely want to thank you for hosting me in your interview series. It is a special honour for me. The truth is that I consider myself an active citizen; and this constantly “pushes” me to express my opinions and my thoughts publicly and in every format. In particular, social media, which has replaced the “placards of Diogenes” of ancient Athens, helps a lot. Some of the anxieties, the worries, the inner needs and the daily life that we experience often make me go through the roof with texts, complaints and suggestions. My first book emerged by itself. I had never really thought that I could write and publish a book. I considered it a mountain to climb. But after completing this journey along the first borders of (newly-independent) Greece, those of 1832, I started to write and post my experiences online, along with the historical and other facts, on Facebook. It was then that some friends half-seriously suggested that I should codify all this into a book. And that’s how it came about. The book could be described as a narrative of an 11-day trek from Pagasitikos (Pagasetic Gulf) to Amvrakikos (Ambracian Gulf) along the first frontiers of the modern Greek state, in the footsteps of my great-great-grandfather, 'Stamelogiorgis the bandit'! It includes the historical background as well as info on culture, folklore, mountaineering, hiking and nature, and many, many personal feelings! Data was drawn from conference proceedings, including the Philarchaic Society of Almyros and the Pthiotian History conference, but mainly from the Internet, personal testimonies, elements gathered during the trek in “live connection” with the old borders, and personal experiences. The book covers a relatively obscure period of modern Greek history, the fifty years between 1832 and 1881, a gray historical period, as I like to call it, and the special role of the Great Powers, similar to what is happening today, 200 years after the start of the Greek War of Independence.
Antonis Petropoulos: As we are expected to freeze this winter, besides the War, many are also cursing the (European) Energy Exchange and those who designed it, possibly speculating on the occasion of the Climate Crisis. Many are already nostalgic for the traditional but carcinogenic Lignite. Is there finally a way to keep warm both ecologically and cheaply, and which is it, geothermal energy, nuclear energy that the EU recently baptized ‘green’, photovoltaics on every building and roof, pellets from olive pits, energy communities, self-production at the level of the Municipality, subsidized insulation, or just put on a second sweater as suggested by Mr. Schäuble?
Stefanos Stamellos: I would agree if Mr. Schäuble wanted to emphasize that societies should have energy savings and not waste in mind. But working-class households do not waste, we must make this clear. Waste can be limited at the level of the wealthy, at the level of public services, municipalities, etc., but all of us can also limit consumption with incentives and constant information. But let’s not forget, the biggest energy consumers are energy-intensive industries. That said, we can definitely, gradually and carefully, limit fossil fuels. But without electricity storage it is impossible to talk about 100% coverage of our needs with renewables, due to the instability and variability of the wind and the sun. Also, we should not consider nuclear energy under any circumstances. In my opinion, the production of electricity from Renewable Energy Sources (RES), which is the point, can be done in many ways without undermining the ecosystems of our country and its Protected Areas, especially the mountainous ones, as well as the productive land. Other types of RES which are less harmful to the landscape and nature include geothermal and solar systems on every building and roof, near the degraded areas and along the highways, and biomass. We must not forget Energy Communities, to involve small producers as much as possible in energy production, and the use of small-scale home renewable energy systems.
So we should approach production in terms of social, environmental and economic sustainability. Environmental sustainability, which is the ability of the environment to support a level of environmental quality and conservation of natural resources indefinitely, also has economic and social characteristics. Since electricity is, undeniably, a common good, its production cannot depend on stock market profitability; in fact, Climate Change can be instrumentalized by those who do not believe in it much. Production must be assessed by its ecological footprint and should take place as close as possible to consumption, with less negative impact on ecosystems, through national planning and social policies. Productive land and mountain tops cannot be wasted so that some can sell renewable energy to Germany and Austria, as we recently read in Spiegel magazine and as the Minister in charge said. Keep in mind that even if a large percentage of the country’s energy mix is covered by RES, it does not mean that electricity will be cheap. At the moment, it is a commercial product and the prices are determined by the stock market and especially the three exchanges: energy, pollution and natural gas. Nor can we forget skyrocketing corporate profits.
Antonis Petropoulos: ADMIE (the Greek Transmission System Operator) celebrated on October 7, 2022, that for the first time, and for 5 hours, the demand for electricity in Greece was covered by 100% from renewable energy sources. Apparently this record was achieved also thanks to the sacrifice of hundreds of mountaintops to white metallic giants and the new serpentine roads that their installation required - a sacrifice which stills seems to divide the Greek environmental movement. After all, can more wind turbines and wind farms fit in the Greek mountains, and in particular in Oiti (Mount Oeta), which you know inside and out? Are the local communities wrong to react?
Poster for protest hiking against the installation of Wind Turbines on Mt Oiti
Stefanos Stamellos: Such celebrations do not help the common citizen understand what is happening and the real problems in the electricity sector. As I said earlier, without storage, it is not possible to talk about meeting electricity demand for electricity from RES. Looking at the country’s energy mix, for example, we see a variation from 3% to 73%. This means that without the stable lignite and natural gas production units, consumption needs cannot be ensured. When a natural gas plant is operating, even when it is on standby, it has operating costs and must somehow be paid for, even if it is not producing. And we see more and more natural gas plants entering the electricity production chain. So, with every reservation, I say that the 4-5 companies that operate as an oligopoly, will decide how much electricity and by which technology it will be produced. These are the same companies that are both producers and providers, that have natural gas plants and RES packages, that surely what they care about is their stock on the stock market and have no reason to obey any national energy policy, not that one really exists.
You ask me if other wind turbines and wind farms can fit in our mountains and especially in Oiti. My opinion is that the Special Spatial Plan for RES should be revised immediately and the construction of wind parks in the mountains at an altitude of more than 800m should be prohibited. This is because we are dealing with a sensitive natural reserve, of a high value based on rare flora and fauna of our country, but also because industrial scale interventions have many risks such as flooding, landslides and fires.
As for Oiti, it will be a huge crime if plans to install wind turbines on this mountain of flowers go ahead, on the borders of a National Forest and an (EU protected) NATURA Area, within an Important Bird Area and a wild goat habitat, at altitudes from 1,600 to 2,150m, near the archaeological site of the Pyre of Herakles (Hercules), at the sources of the Gorgopotamos and Mornos Rivers, destroying forest areas as emphatically stated in the negative opinion of the Forestry of Amfissa and the Management authority of ‘the National Parks of Parnassos, Oiti and Protected Areas of Eastern Central Greece’. When the local community is united, it reacts, such as with the unanimous decisions of the municipal councils of Lamia and Delphi and the 25 community councils of the villages of Oiti. All of them insist that Oiti, among others, has an important role to play in a light ecotouristic development of the region. The village of Pavliani serves as a good case study.
Antonis Petropoulos: Waste Management (but even Recycling) is a long and painful story in Greece. Based on your experience as a local government councillor, are there specific financial interests that prevent the matter from being resolved in an environmentally sound way at the local/regional level, is the problem focused at the central level, or is it mainly a general indifference/misunderstanding, a lack of training and environmental awareness?
Stefanos Stamellos: My experience tells me that the problem is complex. It is, yes, the financial interests of the companies, that want to share the ‘garbage pie’ - and it is a lot of money - but it is also because of the incompetence of the management executives, the convenience of the local government and the indifference of both the local government and the citizens themselves. But it is also the enormous responsibility of the state and administrations over time. The issue, as we all understand, is deeply ecological, because it concerns the waste of natural resources, in the sense that the so-called garbage could, with proper management, re-enter the production process, what has been rightly called the circular economy. The 4-5 companies with specific interests are the ones who imposed the cancellation of sorting at source and are constantly pushing towards the privatization of waste management with priority on waste treatment units - as a necessary evil now - and the production of essentially material for combustion, through public-private partnerships. And this is taking place with constant delays, with a waste of European programmes and the undermining of all efforts for integrated alternative management.
Antonis Petropoulos: Do you believe the Pandemic (has so far) raised or reduced environmental awareness? Did the majority, even among the new generation, understand the relationship between habitat destruction, consumption of ‘game’, and the transmission of zoonotic diseases, or were they content with paradoxical and conspiracy theories?
Stefanos Stamellos: At one point we said that in the future we will refer to the pre-pandemic and post-pandemic eras, that a brand new day would come and that the world would change. No, none of that happened. We have no qualitative changes for the better. We can only count wounds, and especially in the mental health of young people.
Antonis Petropoulos: In your articles, you advocate a “moderate, sustainable polycentric development”. How does this concept differ from the more well-known “green growth”, “just transition” and also “degrowth”? What important new policies and changes would it bring into practice, in Oiti and the wider region?
Stefanos Stamellos: The ecological approach towards the economy and social progress favours decentralization, localization, and moderate, sustainable forms of production. Pharaonic constructions and large investments create problems for natural resources and ecosystems and often lead to the exhaustion of local carrying capacity limits. Especially in our small country, with its (complex) geographical relief, when we refer to the revitalization of the countryside and decentralization, we must have in mind small businesses, even family-businesses, that cover a wide, multi-centered production spectrum. Many times we see Regional Administrations wasting all subsidy funds of National and European Development Aid in just a few large projects, including pharaonic ones, and, often, with dubious results. “Green growth” and “just transition” concepts, I think, have a different content and acquire a general character, which is probably undermined in practice.
Antonis Petropoulos: Once ‘guarded’, Thermopylae now seems abandoned to its fate, along with its thermal springs and Spa Tourism. Who is to blame and who should act?
Stefanos Stamellos: Spa tourism in Greece is a long-suffering affair which belongs to the broader sphere of subversion to serve the plans of privatizing everything so that, allegedly, an influx of foreign capital can take place. There are approximately 750 hot springs in the country and of these (just) 80 have an official certification or recognition. In the region of Fthiotida there are eight recognized springs and three of them are in TAIPED (State Asset Development Fund) for privatization. The field is fiercely competitive and logically there shouldn’t be any high expectations. To this day, all those in charge only say big words, more or less that every source will become a new Baden-Baden or Karlovy Vary. I personally think that, if TAIPED succeeds in selling out this common good, the thermal potential of our region, the private investor who will buy the sources, will operate one and close the others so as to minimize competition. A relevant recent example in our area are the Platystomo Hot Springs. What should be done is to give springs to the local communities and, under the leadership of the local government, make efforts to operate them with state and private funds but without great expectations. All springs, however, should be operated with respect for the environment, sustainability and water, a common good. I am one of those who disagree with the sale of public property, especially to foreigners, and even more so since Thermopylae is a special case; it is a global brand name and under no circumstances should it be privatized. Anyone who wants can procure and take advantage of its water, which will end up in Maliakos gulf, anyway, by doing as many types of businesses as they want, but without owning the sources and the brand name.
Antonis Petropoulos: You are one of the few in Greece who have not only thoroughly explored the European Path, E4, but have also written a related book, “On the Road to Pythia, Agrafa – Karpenisi – Delphi, the European Path E4”. Do you think the path is in a satisfactory condition today, and how can it be better maintained, enhanced and used? Should a specific new state agency be created for it and other trails, or can local government manage it?
Stefanos Stamellos: The European Path E4 has been officially recognized for over 30 years. It was built and marked by the Mountaineering Federation of Greece in the 1980s and since then it has been almost abandoned! Only a few municipalities took care of its maintenance; and that in a piecemeal way. The foreign climbers and hikers who try to follow it protest and curse! It is dangerous in many parts, with no signage and rudimentary infrastructure. Because it concerns a large part of the country, it could, as you say, be undertaken by a nationwide body, with national funding and in cooperation with the local government. In any case, local government has the obligation to maintain the paths, in the areas of responsibility of each municipality or the Region, within the framework of the goal for an all year round tourism.
I walked the E4 for eight days from Agrafa to Delphi, the route taken by many foreigners, mainly the Dutch. This section of the E4 crosses one of the most important regions of central Greece with a distinct variety: mountains, rivers, forests, as well as rich flora and fauna. An area with a special beauty, but also villages with a rich history, ideal for hikers and mountaineers who seek multi-day wanderings in nature. I also recorded this in the book, "On the road to Pythia", with the ambition to contribute to the promotion of the European Path E4, to give it the value and prestige it deserves and for the competent bodies to assume their responsibilities for maintenance and marking. Let’s arouse as many nature lovers as we can to honour these routes by drawing strength from the beauty of Greek nature in the difficult times we live in.
Antonis Petropoulos: Almost every year for the last twenty years, we have had devastating forest fires. Is only the Climate Crisis to blame, or other parameters of the socio-economic system that causes the Climate Crisis, in combination with specific Greek pathological conditions, including poor waste management, maintenance and design of electrical networks, land grabbing and so on?
Stefanos Stamellos: It’s easy to chalk it all up to Climate Change, but it’s not so simple. The causes of fires are varied. Besides arson, we can point to short circuits in the electrical network, self-ignition from garbage, broken glass and the carelessness of our fellow citizens. No one is under the illusions that the fires will stop. All that remains is to prepare daily and organize our forces, society and the state, in order to minimize the tragic results. It is necessary in the “prevention-suppression” balance that the system leans towards prevention and that decisions are made based on the rules of science and not guilds and other interests. This presupposes the activation of society, information in all forms, the organized presence of volunteers and firefighters in these three critical summer months, in combination with the maintenance of the existing road network in the forests and other fire protection infrastructure. Experience says that a (forest) fire can be put out in the first minutes. If it escapes, it is difficult to deal with.
Antonis Petropoulos: You regularly lead by example as a mountaineer and keen long-distance runner and mountain runner. How could mountaineering, mountain sports and mountain tourism become more popular and beneficial to the local community and at the same time not increase their environmental footprints (roads, emissions, accommodation facilities) too much? Do we need, for example, new railway lines and bus lines from the cities to the mountains? Or simply more excursion/holiday vouchers (passes) targeted at mountain destinations so that mountain tourism is not mainly about an elite that patronizes expensive chalets?
Running a Marathon on Oiti, the Mountain of Hercules
Stefanos Stamellos: Mountaineering has a long tradition in Greece with several, active clubs that climb the mountains every weekend. In recent years, the running movement has also grown a lot and mountain races have multiplied. These are two interesting countryside activities, which are part of sustainable mountain tourism with important parameters both for local communities and professionals, as well as for the participants themselves with a minimal environmental footprint. I think that more attention should be paid to mountaineering and mountain races, especially by the local government - it should embrace these activities. No special costs or personnel are required. In principle, these activities are characterized by volunteerism and the willingness to offer. What the local government and each municipality should do is to record, clean and mark the traditional paths in the mountainous massifs of their area and allocate a minimum level of funding in their annual budgets to maintain them so that they are safe and visitable and to promote them by all means. Municipalities should also maintain a favourable disposition to, and cooperation with organizers of mountain and rural races.
In a broader context, it is now necessary for our country to develop safe and certified multi-day routes for climbers and hikers with certified accommodation and infrastructure. Something similar is done in almost all countries to attract mainly foreign groups, who would like to enjoy the beauties and history of our country on foot. The revitalization of the countryside and the return of young people to the countryside by ensuring basic employment is the goal. Sustainable mountain tourism is an important parameter and solution. Ensuring access with more means of transport can be dealt at a later stage and is not difficult. We must not forget, among other things, that our villages have been deserted and the few who remain need our presence in every way.
Antonis Petropoulos: I don’t know if you will agree, but there is the impression that the current of Political Ecology in Greece seems to have receded, without actually having ever grown much. But similar phenomena are also observed in other countries, as ecology and sustainability are now mainstream, due to the Climate Crisis, while the vocabulary and some policies are being adopted, even superficially, by governments, large companies, international organizations, the system in general. As a founding, but also active, member of the environmental/ecology movement in Greece, would you perhaps like to see a return to the roots, to more anti-systemic positions, or on the contrary do you believe that the mainstreaming of the once radical ecology towards environmentalist-centrist positions offers new possibilities?
Stefanos Stamellos: I am one of those who believe that Ecology is a genuine need and thus I consider it is necessary for Political Ecology to be present and have a role. This, because there must be a force that puts ecological issues first, unlike other political currents that have other priorities. For them, ecological issues, no matter how much they invoke them, come second or third. Political Ecology is considered a distinct political space - the fourth component of the political scene - with its own principles and values, which refer to Sustainability and our moral attitude towards fellow humans, the planet and nature. But we proved we did not respect this political space. We wasted it with personal, selfish and other behaviours. A relentless, ongoing internal trench warfare has been going on for years. After two decades, our political space appears fragmented with intense elements of internal competition and sterile confrontations. And this, of course, without any substantial ideological or other differences, but only groupings fueled by personal ambitions, sharing positions of “power” and representation. The participation of the Ecologists-Greens in the SYRIZA-led coalition government (2015-2019) was a choice that led to the loss of the foundations and the moral advantages of Ecology amid the general negative economic and social climate of that period. The result of all this, please allow me this personal assessment, is the significant reduction of the appeal and the dynamics of Political Ecology, as the fourth component of the political scene. The image it projects today is almost establishment-like. Its social movement character, radicalism, optimism, youthfulness and freshness have been lost; the leaderships produce a tired speech of retirees. Many of its old supporters feel that the policies of the German Greens are simply being copied and reproduced in the Greek field.
I believe that Political Ecology must act as a movement and aim to inoculate society and popular movements with optimistic, priority proposals and ideas, within the framework of the basic principles and values of Ecology; even if these may sound as far-fetched. Any proposals and interventions for changes in the way we think and the way we live, in the way we produce and consume, must be easy to comprehend and include examples and applications. We should not avoid conflicts in the field of politics, these serve to highlight responsibilities at all levels. The discourse of Political Ecology must be honest, accurate, uncompromising, without shades of gray and without the stresses of short-term governability. And, of course, it must incorporate the elements of social cohesion and sustainability in every way.
I am watching from a distance and I see efforts being made for an electoral alliance of all, or almost all, of the “parties” that define themselves as ecological. But these efforts take place “from above”, sharing positions and everything else. I think these should be done “from below”, in terms of the movement, because ecology must, as we said, first and foremost, be a movement and work as a catalyst within society. Today, politics needs to be practiced in the classical sense. To specify tactics and strategy and to define tactical and strategic goals. This means delving into the ideological stock and obeying the principles and values that govern that stock. Such is, for example, the Global Greens Charter.
Antonis Petropoulos: Finally, despite your long-term activism and contributions, and observing how positive and energetic you are, it is impossible not to ask you, what are your ambitions for the future, in relation to writing, sports and politics?
Politics, Environment, Running, it's all a Marathon
Stefanos Stamellos: Starting from the last one, I am a political being as an active citizen in local government affairs and from an “acquired speed” as we say. I remain close to Political Ecology but from a distance and take part in ecological social movements, as much as my obligations allow. Athletically, I try to maintain my strength by participating in competitions, big and small, with quite a few risks due to age. In the field of writing, despite my five books, I think it is a pretty big talk to define oneself as a “writer”. Currently, I am trying to make these books better known, through presentations, but I also have some new ideas, which I hope will materialize soon.
Antonis Petropoulos: Thank you very much for sharing your valuable experience, ideas, and enthusiasm, with our readers!